I thought this was VERY enlightening & interesting. It was based on 1 Peter 3:7. He again misquotes Genesis 3 about the curse on women (didn't anyone ask him about it?) at the beginning. He says though, that there are 2 directions to go to define masculinity:
- Cowardice - passive cowards (too little)
- Chauvinist - aggressive punks (too much)
4 Types of Chauvinists:
- No Sissy Stuff Sam - he's the opposite of a woman; being a man means being everything the opposite of women
- Success & Status Steward -he's the guy with the trophy wife - all about the stuff that makes him look good; concerned mostly about income and possessions
- Give 'Em Hell Hank - he's the scary, beat you type
- I'm the Boss Bob - king of the whole thing, telling everyone what to do, overbearing and bossy and loves be in authority and not under authority (Mark said he really hated these guys - especially when they come into the church and want to be in a role. He said, here's your role, "Sit down and SHUT UP." I thought this was funny)
- Little Boy Larry - can't keep a job, still a boy inside, wear a "proverbial diaper," mama's boy, his girlfriend is more like his mom, majority of cowardice types
- Sturdy Oak Owen - always around but in a comatose state; comes home and turns on tv and drinks a beer; emotionally distant; non-participatory
- Hyper Spiritual Henry - Christian tshirts; knows everything about God but nothing really makes sense, embarrassing to kids b/c of the frequency of "spiritual talk"
- Good Time Gary - life of the party, entertaining, everyone loves him but no one respects him, not going anyhwere
Jesus took responsibility. He didn't have to. Our sin was NOT his fault. But, he took responsibility for it and took the initiative.
Marriage is for men, not boys.
Marriage doesn't make you men, it ruins women. (for those who say marriage will change men)
Why he can talk to the men this way and not the ladies? Women are more like goblets and men are more like thermoses. (hahaha)
Men need to be a particular way to help relieve fears of women:
- Honor her maritally - honor marriage covenant by taking care of well being of woman
- Honor her physically - does she feel safe with you? don't raise a hand to her, threaten her with violence *insert yelling and name calling*
- Honor her emotionally - men and women DO have same emotions, they just show them differently, show emotions, she wants you to KNOW her and she wants to KNOW you, intimacy
- Honor her verbally - how do you speak about her in her absence? no backhanded comments, how do you talk to her?
- Honor her financially -
- Honor her practically - are there things that are unfinished around the house? help clean up, is there a schedule you use?
- Honor her parentally - she wants you to LOVE the kids, pastor the kids, don't abdicate your pastoral role/spiritual role to others
- Honor her spiritually - YOU read the Bible to/with her, YOU pray with your wife
Whew. It was intense. I don't know if I could listen to the yelling week after week. Lol. I'm not sure I disagreed with him much on any of this minus the Genesis 3 thing. However, I'm left with the question - does this translate culturally? Is this just a reflection for white men? What about Black men, Asian American, Native American men? Now I realize that the 8 things list is pretty much Scripture, but what about the definition of masculinity for those cultures - the idea of cowardice/chauvinist? I don't know if it'd fly or if it could be directly transferrable. Wonder if he ever talks at all about racial reconciliation??
Anyway, these are the notes. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this one or the women one. Do listen to them if you have some time to kill and want to use it wisely (?). ;)
Huh.... his use of a polarity and delivery doesn't seem particularly helpful.
i haven't listened to this yet, but lemme tell ya...today in class, we heard from a former director of a domestic violence shelter (she is one of my classmates). the stories she told and way in which she discussed the abuse was heartbreaking...i think any guy who gets married needs to hear what i heard. man, after she was done talking and we watched a film clip from the movie "The Burning Bed", the entire classroom was deathly silent...i've never been in a situation like that before in a classroom. at one point, the situation got so intense and heavy and began reminding me of some stuff from my past...it got to the point where i almost ran outta the room.
personally, i think that Christians are in a bind with marriage. on one hand, couples can't live together and have sex before marriage. but on the other hand, i think sometimes people get married WAY too early without having real-life experiences and it makes married life much more difficult. sheila and i were lucky in that we both had lived off-campus for awhile before getting married and that i had worked and was used to life as a working person before marriage, so we both had some sorta idea with what was involved with keeping up a home and balancing work\family\church and stuff, which was a huge blessing. it's cute and all when people graduate one day and get married the next, but i think that it can lead to a lot of problems, especially regarding roles and responsibilities in the marriage as both people are trying to get set in their careers and adjust to post-college life. thank God for pastor joe and his solid premarital counseling!
despite his yelling and insults, questionable exposition of gen 3, and even his edginess, i like that he calls out men. i missed most of the 4 chauvinists/4 cowards, but thanks to your terrific notes, i'm glad that he shakes them up. i also like the quote on "marriage doesn't make you men, it ruins women." so true.
i'm right there with you when it comes to the nuanced issues and definitions of masculinity for people of color/internationals. i think the two directions definitely show up in different cultures -- maybe they just show themselves differently. i do want to know what it would be like for him to speak to men from diff socioeconomic backgrounds, or ones with non-western values, or men who have been emasculated by stereotyping/society. how does one "reclaim" masculinity when it's already been taken away by others? they may fit into the cowardice/chauvinist polarity, but i think there are many ("The Other") who are "behind the veil".
p.s. i'm really glad he calls out the hyper-spiritual henry! enough with that, i say.
OH. and i like that he says men also have emotions -- they show up differently.
i wonder how men respond to his style -- is it usually positive? is this what the church needs to battle the feminization of the church? (joe? gerald? any responses?)